I wasn't offended. I was just concerned at what seemed to me like an irrelevant statement. I think I understand better now, and I have one more point to make: just because I don't think we have a purpose set out for us, doesn't mean I don't think we should try and achieve something with our lives. It's precisely because I don't think our lives have a predetermined meaning that I think we should try as hard as we can to find one for ourselves.

this is the most ridiculous thing ever... I disproved a bunch of those things! What proof do you have that there is a god? You can't just make up figures and say that it's true. I'm not atheist but come on, you can do better than that if you want people to be the same religion as you.

the best proof that we catholics can give is by simply looking at the world around us, miracles, and other things in life.

But many people just don't want to see God through those things, and instead look at science.

if we don't believe in god we have no hope.

i have a question: i know god exist but i want to know does he like to make people suffer for the 'bigger picture'? maybe that's a stupid question but i've asked it and nobody seems to be able to answer me. and also just to put it out there in case it was brought up or will be: there is an after life. there just has to be! what's the point of being created if all it's just suffering we have to endure.

The current "suffering" condition of mankind, in the Christian worldview, is attributed to the corruption of the world due to the sin of humanity. Another common question is "Why does God let bad things happen to good people." The answer to this would be, once again, that it is merely the nature of the world for bad things to happen due to the nature of man.

it is merely the nature of the world for bad things to happen due to the nature of man.

i didn't mean in hope that it'll all get better on earth! i was talking about afterlife.

Why is our all loving God such a dick?

So rather than "Atheists have no hope", what you meant was "Atheists don't believe in an afterlife and therefore have no hope"? Well, this is certainly true. But when you think about it, how desirable is eternity really? Imagine living for 100,000,000 years... and then 100,000,000 after that... and then 100,000,000 after that... Wouldn't you get hideously bored, bitter, frustrated and all the rest of it? No matter how good we feel or how much fun we're having, eventually it will get old. That's human nature. So while no, I don't believe in an afterlife, I personally am rather glad for it.

Also, how is it human nature? I'm not really trying to dispute you here, I am honestly curious about this.

No reason in not believing in a afterlife.

No reason in not believing in a afterlife.

Apart from the lack of evidence, you mean?

Hmm, I seem to have caused some controversy. Perhaps I'm just weird or something, but as anything you fail to achieve in this life cannot be achieved in the next due to its being a totally different world, I'd rather not have my consciousness stretch on endlessly for all eternity. I mean, imagine if you die with regrets, or in terrible pain. You wouldn't be able to fix any mistakes you'd made- maybe the physical pain would go away, but you'd have no way of communicating with those you left behind, even if you were able to watch them. You'd be stuck somewhere you have no control over, endlessly tortured with the thought of your earthly life being over, and yet you wouldn't be able to do anything about it. To me that sounds absolutely hideous- or am I just being morbid?

Well, it's human nature to fight against change, but I also tend to find that everything gets old. Perhaps I was generalizing a bit... It's just that from my experience, no matter how much I love something, over time I start to get tired of it. Favourite foods, favourite films, favourite places... they all become boring or at the very least lose their spark in the end. My argument was that an afterlife would be the same, and also that there's no possibility of it ever changing or ending.

There is no reason to assume an afterlife exists so the logical stance is to believe that it doesn't.

As for not having control over anything, I can't say I see earthly life as being any different. How much control do you ultimately have?

I also disagree with you on these points. I have actually put a lot of thought into 'Human nature' over the years, and my conclusion is that humans have no single nature. It varies from person to person. For example, my nature is to be extremely curious. For others, it might be to be aggressive. To say that all humans have some base nature is like saying all Africans are inferior or all Caucasian males are rascist pigs. It boils down to simple stereotyping.

I must have put the point extremely clumsily indeed to merit this talking-to. I apologise.

At least enough control to be able to interact with the physical world.

It's possible that my opinion on the idea of an afterlife may all boil down to my skepticism over the possibility of "eternity" and "eternal bliss" even existing at all- or at least, the possibility of it being something the human mind could comprehend. I think that unless all earthly regrets disappeared, it was not possible to watch life on Earth (for fear of frustration over not being able to intervene) and yet this inability somehow didn't lead to endless curiosity and speculation, and there was no possibility of the afterlife itself becoming boring, I would not want my consciousness to continue eternally. And even if all those criteria were filled, could a consciousness in that state still be seen as my consciousness? The character traits that make me fear eternity are part of me, after all. Personally, I like to imagine the post-death experience as perpetual sleep. And sleep is something I enjoy very much.

My idea of bliss seems to be your idea of Hell.

Are you speaking of a dreamless sleep, or one in which you have one dream after another?

I apologise if I seem it seemed like I was berating you, it's just that I haven't found anybody else who is actually happy with the idea of not existing. Naturally I would try to learn more about why you would hold such a viewpoint.